| pretty much a simple little survey of sorts. We | | | | You can put a .45 in a persons hand that cant |
| currently have the M9 (Beretta 92FS 9mm) as | | | | shoot, and all the stopping power is still pretty |
| the standard issue side arm for most military | | | | worthless. There were failures of 9mm/40/45, |
| MOS's. I am just curious if there is anyone else | | | | and I have to say it really comes down the |
| out there that feels the 9mm is a piece of | | | | shooter. |
| garbage and we should go back to the .45? No | | | | Just ask the FBI about their tragic 1986 Miami |
| studies were done, no one's opinion was asked, | | | | shootout. On the linked chart note the weapons |
| the change was simply done. No military member | | | | of agents Grogan and Dove, the two agents who |
| I have asked would take a 9mm over a .45. | | | | lost their lives in the gun battle. The agents had to |
| Many people I talked to owe their lives to the .45. | | | | shoot the two suspects several times to bring |
| I've also heard that .45s are like gold over in Iraq, | | | | them down--none of the FBI agents involved |
| as soldiers there are trying to get their hands on | | | | were armed with .45 caliber weapons. Jerry Dove |
| one because the 92F doesn't do the job. | | | | shot one of the bad guys as he climbed out the |
| If the police had .45s instead of 9mm in the | | | | passenger's side car window. The round entered |
| Hollywood shootout, they would not have had to | | | | under his left arm and penetrated to his heart. He |
| get rifles from a gun store. It might not have | | | | shot and killed Grogan and Dove, and wounded a |
| gone thru the armor but would have knocked | | | | third FBI agent after taking this hit. It didn't even |
| them flat and let them close. You can hit target | | | | slow him down. The Miami office authorized their |
| on the earlobe with a .45cal and knock it flat. | | | | Agents to carry .45s, shortly after the shootout. |
| As I understand it we converted to 9mm in order | | | | There's no substitute for the old Colt 45, but if |
| to conform to NATO. In my opinion, it was a | | | | you happen to find a 9mm Luger and the |
| ridiculous compromise. The purpose of a side arm | | | | extractor and the ejector don't break, well there's |
| is to defend yourself in close quarters. A 9mm will | | | | just something about the Luger that is |
| injure an adversary, but leave him active enough | | | | magnificent! The only way a 9mm can stack up |
| to possibly still do you harm. 45cal. on the other | | | | to the .45 in stopping power is if you're using |
| hand will disable the individual most entirely. Made | | | | Black Talon or Gold Dot hollow-point ammo. |
| by Colt the .45 is superior for flat out stopping | | | | However I have heard these two brands of |
| power and NATO should have conformed to us. | | | | ammo are now restricted. |
| The Beretta 92F was brought in because the US | | | | Actually, the Military has a Request for Proposals |
| needed to maintain the bases in Italy. It was very | | | | out, to adopt a new .45 pistol. All interested |
| simply a Quid Pro Quo. | | | | bidders must present their pistols for evaluation |
| We have to remember that the weapons | | | | later this year. |
| 'stopping power' depends on the shooter as well. | | | | |